Manjushri Garland Clarification, Please?

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Tenma
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Manjushri Garland Clarification, Please?

Post by Tenma » Tue May 14, 2019 5:09 am

For Garchen Rinpoche's Vagishvara Manjushri, is the mantra garland facing inwards or outwards? I tried to ask the Garchen Institute, but I have not received a single answer for months after asking them again and again. Could anyone who has received this empowerment just clarify this simple question? Thank you.

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Miroku
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Re: Manjushri Garland Clarification, Please?

Post by Miroku » Tue May 14, 2019 8:54 am

I'd assume outside facing as that is the general way to visualize mantra garlands. But can't base on anything but experience.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Tenma
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Re: Manjushri Garland Clarification, Please?

Post by Tenma » Tue May 14, 2019 2:59 pm

Yeah, except I ended up finding a Garland that faced inwards and according to one Lama, one mantra of Manjushri (not the one I practice) has the Garland facing inwards, so I got confused by that and prayer wheels.

Thanks for the attempt though.

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Miroku
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Re: Manjushri Garland Clarification, Please?

Post by Miroku » Tue May 14, 2019 3:26 pm

Tenma wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:59 pm
Yeah, except I ended up finding a Garland that faced inwards and according to one Lama, one mantra of Manjushri (not the one I practice) has the Garland facing inwards, so I got confused by that and prayer wheels.

Thanks for the attempt though.
Yes, but it is not important what one lama thinks, it is important what your teacher thinks, so try to find a video of practice done in GBI, or it being explained.
Not all practices of Manjushri are the same. Some forms are different from different sources, that is why Garchen Rinpoche uses White Tara mantra saying "OM TARE TUTARE TURE MAMA AYUR JNANA PUNYE PUSHTIM KURUYE SVAHA" and not the version where it goes "ayur punye jnana pushtim" or sth like this.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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Re: Manjushri Garland Clarification, Please?

Post by Tenma » Tue May 14, 2019 9:51 pm

Miroku wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:26 pm
Tenma wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:59 pm
Yeah, except I ended up finding a Garland that faced inwards and according to one Lama, one mantra of Manjushri (not the one I practice) has the Garland facing inwards, so I got confused by that and prayer wheels.

Thanks for the attempt though.
Yes, but it is not important what one lama thinks, it is important what your teacher thinks, so try to find a video of practice done in GBI, or it being explained.
Not all practices of Manjushri are the same. Some forms are different from different sources, that is why Garchen Rinpoche uses White Tara mantra saying "OM TARE TUTARE TURE MAMA AYUR JNANA PUNYE PUSHTIM KURUYE SVAHA" and not the version where it goes "ayur punye jnana pushtim" or sth like this.
Yeah, except I wasn't able to find it. The closest was Lama Gursam, but no info. on which way the Garland was facing (just clockwise, that's all it said).

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Miroku
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Re: Manjushri Garland Clarification, Please?

Post by Miroku » Tue May 14, 2019 10:11 pm

In this case I'd assume it is facing outwards like most do and practice that way. Hopefully some other practitioners will know better. Or maybe buying the texts could help, there is a big book of teachings on those sadhanas but don't remember the name at the moment and can't find it. Sorry.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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Miroku
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Re: Manjushri Garland Clarification, Please?

Post by Miroku » Tue May 14, 2019 10:14 pm

Pearl Rosary! That's the name of the book of sadhanas.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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ratna
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Re: Manjushri Garland Clarification, Please?

Post by ratna » Thu May 16, 2019 7:24 am

Tenma wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:51 pm

Yeah, except I wasn't able to find it. The closest was Lama Gursam, but no info. on which way the Garland was facing (just clockwise, that's all it said).
Well, there's your answer. If the garland rotates clockwise, the letters must face outside, otherwise the mantra would go backwards.

R
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Miroku
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Re: Manjushri Garland Clarification, Please?

Post by Miroku » Thu May 16, 2019 9:02 am

ratna wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:24 am
Tenma wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:51 pm

Yeah, except I wasn't able to find it. The closest was Lama Gursam, but no info. on which way the Garland was facing (just clockwise, that's all it said).
Well, there's your answer. If the garland rotates clockwise, the letters must face outside, otherwise the mantra would go backwards.

R
:twothumbsup: I didn't realize this! :D Thank you!
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Tenma
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Re: Manjushri Garland Clarification, Please?

Post by Tenma » Thu May 16, 2019 1:57 pm

ratna wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:24 am
Tenma wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:51 pm

Yeah, except I wasn't able to find it. The closest was Lama Gursam, but no info. on which way the Garland was facing (just clockwise, that's all it said).
Well, there's your answer. If the garland rotates clockwise, the letters must face outside, otherwise the mantra would go backwards.

R
Thank you! That clarifies everything. In that case, does counterclockwise mean syllables face inside? Like a Green Tara practice for example if it states counterclockwise?

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conebeckham
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Re: Manjushri Garland Clarification, Please?

Post by conebeckham » Thu May 16, 2019 5:46 pm

In general--and you really should clarify these details according to the specific practice instructions, usually (but not always) found in the Tri texts--when one is practicing nyenpa for actualizing/activating/accumulation of a deity, the mantras would face in, and would be written clockwise and rotate counterclockwise. If one is practicing activities, or benefit for others, mantras would face out, written counter-clockwise, and would rotate clockwise. Sometimes the mantra garlands don't rotate at all, it must be said.

Also, in some practices, it's explained that Father Tantra deities have mantras facing out, while Mother Tantra deities have mantras facing in. Some practices have both, especially if there are multiple deities, or body mandalas, etc.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Re: Manjushri Garland Clarification, Please?

Post by Mantrik » Thu May 16, 2019 7:58 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:46 pm
In general--and you really should clarify these details according to the specific practice instructions, usually (but not always) found in the Tri texts--when one is practicing nyenpa for actualizing/activating/accumulation of a deity, the mantras would face in, and would be written clockwise and rotate counterclockwise. If one is practicing activities, or benefit for others, mantras would face out, written counter-clockwise, and would rotate clockwise. Sometimes the mantra garlands don't rotate at all, it must be said.

Also, in some practices, it's explained that Father Tantra deities have mantras facing out, while Mother Tantra deities have mantras facing in. Some practices have both, especially if there are multiple deities, or body mandalas, etc.

I've always thought it was according to male or female deity rather than father or mother tantras.
Thanks for that. :)
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