Second hand mandala offering set

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Yeshe Dorje
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Second hand mandala offering set

Post by Yeshe Dorje » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:22 am

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether it is okay to use a second hand mandala offering set purchased from someone who has abandoned the Dharma?
Thanks

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lelopa
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Re: Second hand mandala offering set

Post by lelopa » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:34 am

why should it not be ok?
हूं हूं हूं
फट् फट् फट्

Yeshe Dorje
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Re: Second hand mandala offering set

Post by Yeshe Dorje » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:20 am

Thanks for your reply :smile:
Another thread in this site discussing damaru suggested that ritual implements are also samaya substances and should not really be shared. I was a little concerned that this might be the situation in this case.

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Grigoris
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Re: Second hand mandala offering set

Post by Grigoris » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:55 am

Yeshe Dorje wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:20 am
Thanks for your reply :smile:
Another thread in this site discussing damaru suggested that ritual implements are also samaya substances and should not really be shared. I was a little concerned that this might be the situation in this case.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Sādhaka
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Re: Second hand mandala offering set

Post by Sādhaka » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:09 am

You’re not necessarily wrong Grigoris.

But man the Rolling Stones suck.

They’re almost as obnoxious as jam bands. :lol:

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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Second hand mandala offering set

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:43 am

Sādhaka wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:09 am
You’re not necessarily wrong Grigoris.

But man the Rolling Stones suck.

They’re almost as obnoxious as jam bands. :lol:
Oh come on! Jam bands and Rolling Stones are the best! :tantrum:



Anyway, I mean if the person did practice with it and it will prevent it from being thrown out. Why not I guess. I think that mandala set is not as close as lets say mala, or dorje and bell.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

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Grigoris
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Re: Second hand mandala offering set

Post by Grigoris » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:56 am

As long as it was not being used to make offerings to some gyalpo or worldly being and thus there is some (negative) connection, okay...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Yeshe Dorje
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Re: Second hand mandala offering set

Post by Yeshe Dorje » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:09 am

Thanks everybody :twothumbsup:

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Re: Second hand mandala offering set

Post by pemachophel » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:48 pm

Given that the person who previously owned it left the Dharma, I definitely wouldn't use it. If they had accomplished the practice and still held their samaya intact, then I'd say it's ok. But best is to use a brand new set you have purchased for yourself, unless, of course, your Teacher has given you a set.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Grigoris
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Re: Second hand mandala offering set

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:16 pm

I've got a mala I threw in a latrine if you need one for your Vajrasattva accumulations... ;)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Second hand mandala offering set

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:00 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:20 pm
In this case, the OP knows where the mandala set came from and knows the history of its previous owner. As an extension of this thread, IME, it is important not to use antique Dharma objects you don't know the provenance of. These objects (maybe not so common on the market today as they once were) may look and feel really cool. "Wow! Just think of all the mantra or pujas, etc. Because it's old, it must be really blessed." But, in fact, unless we have clairvoyance, we don't know that. Could be that the previous owner was a samaya-breaker. Or maybe they used the implement to worship a Deity inimical to our own lineage. Always best to use Dharma implements which come from our own Teachers or lineages. If one knows that a mala has been blessed by someone in our lineage and our Teacher ok's its use (or even gives it to you), how wonderful! Otherwise, it's generally better to buy one new. Have your Teacher or a Lama in your lineage bless it and then "empower" it yourself with your own practice, faith, and pure samaya.

Just my two cents having once been a Tibetan antique dealer back in the early-mid 70s. I came by my experience the hard way.
:good:

I'd give an arm and a leg and one new mandala offering set to read those experiences. Thank you for sharing it. :bow:
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

Yeshe Dorje
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Re: Second hand mandala offering set

Post by Yeshe Dorje » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:23 am

Thanks Pema Chophel for a different perspective. At the same time as I bought the mandala offering set I also bought two tsa tsas. They are of the type they sell in the FPMT online store that contain rice grains blessed by LZR. I am an FPMT student and approached buying these with the idea of 'rescuing' them as well as with the excitement of obtaining more objects with an LZR connection. What about these? I didn't know anything about the seller when I bought them apart from what he wrote in the advertisement- he was converting to Catholicism but seemed to indicate he was not bitter toward Tibetan Buddhism. When I purchased them I had in mind some things LZR had said about 'pollution' from people who had broken samaya and made sure I wore a Lama Aisha protection amulet to meet seller. I am very much hopeful that the Tsa Tsas can still be viewed as holy objects but differing opinions are most welcome. Also Pema Chophel, when you say 'have your teacher bless it etc' are you only referring to a new set or could It apply to this second hand set?
Thanks again

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Re: Second hand mandala offering set

Post by Yeshe Dorje » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:07 am

I have just emailed my teacher for advice, It may take some time to hear back but will post advice when it comes.

Yeshe Dorje
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Re: Second hand mandala offering set

Post by Yeshe Dorje » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:19 am

I have heard back from my teacher (a Geshe teaching in the FPMT organisation). He has advised me there is no problem using the mandala set. Thanks to everyone who gave their advice and opinions, I think the discussion that split off from this topic was an interesting one. :twothumbsup:

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