Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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Miroku
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Miroku » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:53 pm

Tongnyid Dorje wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:49 pm
climb-up wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:59 am
The above answers are probably better, but I remember in one webcast ChNN talked about people saying they didn't have any time for transformation and he said "how can you not have time to say a mantra 30 times?" ...something like that.
So if I'm very rushed I'll do at least 30 (sometimes 21x, which I have heard as a minimum).
If I'm only doing a short thun, say at the beginning of the day, and not incorporating anther practice or focusing on accumulating mantras, then I generally do a minimum of one mala. It really doesn't even take much longer than 30x and there is not doubt that one full mala is a solid short practice.
Yes, of course it is. Sometimes Im realy wondering about ppl who consider themselves dzogchen yogis, but they can hardly do any formal practice, which is longer, then 5mnts. In first level of SMS Rinpoche made a schedule for students in which one thun should last at least 3hrs.
Yes, formal practice seems to be the weak point of many of us from the DC. I used to pride myself as the 5minute yogi. :D Finding my home in Drikung Kagyu was quite sobering I dare say. However, there are many very hardworking students of Rinpoche. I know of several just in my city who spend a considerable amount of their time on the cushion.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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Tongnyid Dorje
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tongnyid Dorje » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:18 pm

Yes, formal practice seems to be the weak point of many of us from the DC. I used to pride myself as the 5minute yogi. :D Finding my home in Drikung Kagyu was quite sobering I dare say. However, there are many very hardworking students of Rinpoche. I know of several just in my city who spend a considerable amount of their time on the cushion.
So there is still some hope, that Rinpoches teachings will survive! If they will not ask, how many mantras they should say in one sitting. :rolling: Yes, I know few like that also... Im mean few who do practices seriously in DC.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:25 am

Rinpoche always emphazised quality to be more much more important than quantity, maybe that's why he asked so few time of application (few counts), however, this tells me that it depends more on each one's capacity that in a predeterminated amount of time or repetitions.

he said like if one is in presence, a few reps might be enough to activate the function... an this have much more value than "a thousand" while one is distracted.

it's a matter of making the mantra to function, no?

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Simon E. » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:25 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:25 am
Rinpoche always emphazised quality to be more much more important than quantity, maybe that's why he asked so few time of application (few counts), however, this tells me that it depends more on each one's capacity that in a predeterminated amount of time or repetitions.

he said like if one is in presence, a few reps might be enough to activate the function... an this have much more value than "a thousand" while one is distracted.

it's a matter of making the mantra to function, no?
To a student who was expressing some anxiety about accumulating numbers he said...” each one is a new chance, a new start, not a punishment”.
“The difference between us and Tara is that she knows she doesn’t exist”.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tongnyid Dorje » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:19 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:25 am
Rinpoche always emphazised quality to be more much more important than quantity, maybe that's why he asked so few time of application (few counts), however, this tells me that it depends more on each one's capacity that in a predeterminated amount of time or repetitions.

he said like if one is in presence, a few reps might be enough to activate the function... an this have much more value than "a thousand" while one is distracted.

it's a matter of making the mantra to function, no?
As I said before: in First Level of SMS we have 3hrs for thun. Is it already quantity, or still quality? :smile:

I personaly dont know of any siddha, or rigdzin, who did just few mantra repetitions per day and reached its function. Anyway, if you do yidam practice, or guruyoga, and you are accumulating mantras, you are going thrue phases. At beginning its joyful, you can be present and you have some nice experiences. In the middle you have to struggle with all kinds of obbstacles and distractions (actually, I consider this phase the most important, this is when mantra is realy causing some transformation inside you). And at the end you find yourself to be naturaly relaxed and present during accumlation and visualisation.

And also, Rinpoche used to said a story of one profesor, his colleague, who was asking him about function of wrathful deities, which Rinpoche explained to him, as a method for transforming an anger. After some time the profesor was complaining that it is not working for him and Rinpoche told him, that he can not expect experience of transformation if he is not giving the practice realy time and gave him example of ancient yogis.

In any case, we can see around us many examples, that if we do not give a time to something, we will never succeed. If you want to win a tenis championship, you have to train yourself many hours per day. The same for any other sport, science, and so on. Why do we expect that we will win over samsara by doinng practice just five mnts per day?

:namaste:

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:35 am

Not only can we not only do 5 min a day, we need to practice 24/7, that is the main point.
In one book Rinpoche said that if one day all his students did nothing but sound “a” and relax, he would be very happy. ...but if that’s all his students ever did he would not be happy with that at all.

I found that working through the precious vase (currently about half way through) has been extremely helpful in developing my formal practice. The guidelines of one day, or one week or three weeks in retreat per practice (which I understood as 4 two hour thuns per day) really forces you to engage deeply with the practice in a way that a i didn’t even know I wasn’t previously.

But still, integrating contemplation into every aspect of our life is always the main point.

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Re: Practices for recognition at the end of Guru Yoga book

Post by climb-up » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:16 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:06 pm
Just a question about categorization/purpose of practices.

There are these practices at the end of the Guru Yoga book such as "recognition through sensation" "recognition through clarity" etc.

What are these practices for? Are they to be used as something like Rushens or Semdzins? How are they supposed to fit into overall practice, would one engage in them over periods of time, or simply until one is sure of recognition?
I know that was a while ago, and you got a bunch of good answers already, but I just wanted to mention that I found these three to be extremely useful and I go back to them semi-regularly if I’m feeling “fuzzy,” or just not able to integrate something well.
I have not done them in retreat, but before I started working through precious vase I used them a lot.

I don’t know how they fit precisely in re: going through all the basic practices or anything, but I would definitely recommend spending some real time with them and then, if you like them, you’ll find ways to either incorporate them into you practice.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:31 pm

Tongnyid Dorje wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:19 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:25 am
Rinpoche always emphazised quality to be more much more important than quantity, maybe that's why he asked so few time of application (few counts), however, this tells me that it depends more on each one's capacity that in a predeterminated amount of time or repetitions.

he said like if one is in presence, a few reps might be enough to activate the function... an this have much more value than "a thousand" while one is distracted.

it's a matter of making the mantra to function, no?
As I said before: in First Level of SMS we have 3hrs for thun. Is it already quantity, or still quality? :smile:

...

And also, Rinpoche used to said a story of one profesor, his colleague, who was asking him about function of wrathful deities, which Rinpoche explained to him, as a method for transforming an anger. After some time the profesor was complaining that it is not working for him and Rinpoche told him, that he can not expect experience of transformation if he is not giving the practice realy time and gave him example of ancient yogis.

In any case, we can see around us many examples, that if we do not give a time to something, we will never succeed. If you want to win a tenis championship, you have to train yourself many hours per day. The same for any other sport, science, and so on. Why do we expect that we will win over samsara by doinng practice just five mnts per day?

:namaste:
3hrs./day because is a sms commitment, people who teach must know actually what they talk about.

we don't emphasize transformation, having a deity yidam it is a secondary thing in this path.

i agree, one must dedicate, but 3 min being present is far more significant than 3 hours being distracted. if one can be present a larger time, any secondary practice -yidam, thun, etc.- becomes main practice..

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:33 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:25 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:25 am
Rinpoche always emphazised quality to be more much more important than quantity, maybe that's why he asked so few time of application (few counts), however, this tells me that it depends more on each one's capacity that in a predeterminated amount of time or repetitions.

he said like if one is in presence, a few reps might be enough to activate the function... an this have much more value than "a thousand" while one is distracted.

it's a matter of making the mantra to function, no?
To a student who was expressing some anxiety about accumulating numbers he said...” each one is a new chance, a new start, not a punishment”.
LoL, he is the best explaining things. <3

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:40 pm

climb-up wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:35 am
Not only can we not only do 5 min a day, we need to practice 24/7, that is the main point.
In one book Rinpoche said that if one day all his students did nothing but sound “a” and relax, he would be very happy. ...but if that’s all his students ever did he would not be happy with that at all.

I found that working through the precious vase (currently about half way through) has been extremely helpful in developing my formal practice. The guidelines of one day, or one week or three weeks in retreat per practice (which I understood as 4 two hour thuns per day) really forces you to engage deeply with the practice in a way that a i didn’t even know I wasn’t previously.

But still, integrating contemplation into every aspect of our life is always the main point.
yeah, one have to deal with one's own "maras", and lack of self-discipline.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tongnyid Dorje » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:25 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:31 pm
Tongnyid Dorje wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:19 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:25 am
Rinpoche always emphazised quality to be more much more important than quantity, maybe that's why he asked so few time of application (few counts), however, this tells me that it depends more on each one's capacity that in a predeterminated amount of time or repetitions.

he said like if one is in presence, a few reps might be enough to activate the function... an this have much more value than "a thousand" while one is distracted.

it's a matter of making the mantra to function, no?
As I said before: in First Level of SMS we have 3hrs for thun. Is it already quantity, or still quality? :smile:

3hrs./day because is a sms commitment, people who teach must know actually what they talk about.

we don't emphasize transformation, having a deity yidam it is a secondary thing in this path.

i agree, one must dedicate, but 3 min being present is far more significant than 3 hours being distracted. if one can be present a larger time, any secondary practice -yidam, thun, etc.- becomes main practice..
Not everyone taking SMS training was abuut to become instructor. In any case I find out, that if we did Base level REALY, we will be liberated already. If not, then at first level, if we did practices wholeheartly, we will be liberated. And so on...

For me, if I hear someone to say 3mins be present is better to 3hrs distracted sounds sometimes as an excuse for not be able to sit on ones ass a bit longer. :D

:namaste:

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:44 pm

Tongnyid Dorje wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:25 pm

Not everyone taking SMS training was abuut to become instructor. In any case I find out, that if we did Base level REALY, we will be liberated already. If not, then at first level, if we did practices wholeheartly, we will be liberated. And so on...

For me, if I hear someone to say 3mins be present is better to 3hrs distracted sounds sometimes as an excuse for not be able to sit on ones ass a bit longer. :D

:namaste:
i agree, it sounds very suspicious.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by heart » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:13 pm

Quality before quantity is the way to arrive, step by step, at a great 3 hour practice.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by lelopa » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:21 am

heart wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:13 pm
Quality before quantity is the way to arrive, step by step, at a great 3 hour practice.

/magnus
:!: :!: :!:
हूं हूं हूं
फट् फट् फट्

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by amanitamusc » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:24 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:31 pm
Tongnyid Dorje wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:19 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:25 am
Rinpoche always emphazised quality to be more much more important than quantity, maybe that's why he asked so few time of application (few counts), however, this tells me that it depends more on each one's capacity that in a predeterminated amount of time or repetitions.

he said like if one is in presence, a few reps might be enough to activate the function... an this have much more value than "a thousand" while one is distracted.

it's a matter of making the mantra to function, no?
As I said before: in First Level of SMS we have 3hrs for thun. Is it already quantity, or still quality? :smile:

...

And also, Rinpoche used to said a story of one profesor, his colleague, who was asking him about function of wrathful deities, which Rinpoche explained to him, as a method for transforming an anger. After some time the profesor was complaining that it is not working for him and Rinpoche told him, that he can not expect experience of transformation if he is not giving the practice realy time and gave him example of ancient yogis.

In any case, we can see around us many examples, that if we do not give a time to something, we will never succeed. If you want to win a tenis championship, you have to train yourself many hours per day. The same for any other sport, science, and so on. Why do we expect that we will win over samsara by doinng practice just five mnts per day?

:namaste:
3hrs./day because is a sms commitment, people who teach must know actually what they talk about.

we don't emphasize transformation, having a deity yidam it is a secondary thing in this path.

i agree, one must dedicate, but 3 min being present is far more significant than 3 hours being distracted. if one can be present a larger time, any secondary practice -yidam, thun, etc.- becomes main practice..
:good:

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by amanitamusc » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:27 am

heart wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:13 pm
Quality before quantity is the way to arrive, step by step, at a great 3 hour practice.

/magnus
That is right.Rinpoche always said to not force yourself.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Josef » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:53 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:31 pm
Tongnyid Dorje wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:19 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:25 am
Rinpoche always emphazised quality to be more much more important than quantity, maybe that's why he asked so few time of application (few counts), however, this tells me that it depends more on each one's capacity that in a predeterminated amount of time or repetitions.

he said like if one is in presence, a few reps might be enough to activate the function... an this have much more value than "a thousand" while one is distracted.

it's a matter of making the mantra to function, no?
As I said before: in First Level of SMS we have 3hrs for thun. Is it already quantity, or still quality? :smile:

...

And also, Rinpoche used to said a story of one profesor, his colleague, who was asking him about function of wrathful deities, which Rinpoche explained to him, as a method for transforming an anger. After some time the profesor was complaining that it is not working for him and Rinpoche told him, that he can not expect experience of transformation if he is not giving the practice realy time and gave him example of ancient yogis.

In any case, we can see around us many examples, that if we do not give a time to something, we will never succeed. If you want to win a tenis championship, you have to train yourself many hours per day. The same for any other sport, science, and so on. Why do we expect that we will win over samsara by doinng practice just five mnts per day?

:namaste:
3hrs./day because is a sms commitment, people who teach must know actually what they talk about.

we don't emphasize transformation, having a deity yidam it is a secondary thing in this path.

i agree, one must dedicate, but 3 min being present is far more significant than 3 hours being distracted. if one can be present a larger time, any secondary practice -yidam, thun, etc.- becomes main practice..
As a person who went through this training I can attest to its benefits.
Maintaining the balance between doing the accumulations and the essence of all of them is paramount.
We have to work with our own circumstances in order to find the best approach for each individual.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by dharmafootsteps » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:15 am

Does anyone have/know of a recording of the melody for the Avalokiteshvara Korwa Tongtrug practice?

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:51 am

dharmafootsteps wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:15 am
Does anyone have/know of a recording of the melody for the Avalokiteshvara Korwa Tongtrug practice?
i could find only the melody that sms instructors use. in barcelona there was a AKT retreat, but i could't attend nor find it, maybe there is a melody from Rinpoche.

does it serves you as well?

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by dharmafootsteps » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:12 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:51 am
dharmafootsteps wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:15 am
Does anyone have/know of a recording of the melody for the Avalokiteshvara Korwa Tongtrug practice?
i could find only the melody that sms instructors use. in barcelona there was a AKT retreat, but i could't attend nor find it, maybe there is a melody from Rinpoche.

does it serves you as well?
Ah yes, the one the SMS instructors use would be great!

I know some of the Barcelona sangha, so I'll ask around there as well. Do you know what year the retreat was?

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