What is Mount Meru?

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ryan_oliveira
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What is Mount Meru?

Post by ryan_oliveira »

Should Mount Meru be taken in literally? Is it possible to believe in Mount Meru and believe in contemporary science?
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

ryan_oliveira wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:35 pm Should Mount Meru be taken in literally?
No.
ryan_oliveira wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:35 pm Is it possible to believe in Mount Meru and believe in contemporary science?
Yes, so long as you don't take Mount Meru literally.

YMMV, of course.

:namaste:
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Simon E.
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by Simon E. »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:52 am
ryan_oliveira wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:35 pm Should Mount Meru be taken in literally?
No.
ryan_oliveira wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:35 pm Is it possible to believe in Mount Meru and believe in contemporary science?
Yes, so long as you don't take Mount Meru literally.

YMMV, of course.

:namaste:
Kim
This.
Pretty much the same applies to all aspects of Buddhist cosmology.
But it’s perhaps important to see that saying something is not literally true does not mean that it has no meaning or is unimportant.
Some of the most profound teachings in Buddhadharma are metaphors and symbols rather ontological statements.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

I thought it was a metaphor until I saw a news article headlined “Airplane Crashes into Mt. Meru”. I was quite shocked. Turns out that is the name of a volcano in Tanzania. :shrug:
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by 如傑優婆塞 »

phpBB [video]

One answer to your query may be seen from 10:43 to 12:40. If you have time, the rest of it contains some interesting points to consider...

phpBB [video]

Here's another short one to look at... Also, try checking out this
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

I’m told the Truth the Buddha saw was more closely related to what Shakespeare saw than what Einstein saw. So the question is off base.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Astus
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by Astus »

A monk asked Yunmen, "When not producing a single thought, is there any fault or not?"
Yumen said, "Mount Sumeru."
(Book of Serenity, case 19)

So, what is Mount Meru? :anjali:
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Simon E.
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by Simon E. »

Astus wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:36 am A monk asked Yunmen, "When not producing a single thought, is there any fault or not?"
Yumen said, "Mount Sumeru."
(Book of Serenity, case 19)

So, what is Mount Meru? :anjali:
Dunno...what? :shrug:
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by Mantrik »

On the other hand, Kailash is pretty solid but no more a 'reality' than Meru.
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seeker242
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by seeker242 »

ryan_oliveira wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:35 pm Should Mount Meru be taken in literally?
It can be, no problem. :D However, since it is a multi-dimensional center, there is no reason to believe it's an actual mountain. But just because that's the case, does not mean it isn't actually real. :D
Is it possible to believe in Mount Meru and believe in contemporary science?
Sure, no scientist has seen the center of the universe, nor have they seen other realms of existence.
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by joy&peace »

If Buddha was truthful, then we are in the Pure Land right now. Seen clearly, the world is pure land - full of gems, jewels, and this sort of thing. Here and now. He said, if a person cannot see the sun, does it mean the sun is not there?

Mount Meru may be like this. As this is Mahayana, forum, there's many things which don't relate to what is commonly talked about or understood.
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by joy&peace »

However, as an addendum, Buddha said our own logic and heart should tell us what is true.

So - don't believe just because teacher, scripture, authority say something, if it doesn't accord to the heart...

Anyway, cosmology in Buddhism is a interesting thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Anyway, cosmology in Buddhism is a interesting thing.
In Kongtrul’s “Myriad Worlds” he has several cosmologies. Abhdgarma, with Mt. Meru, Kalachakra, with Shambala, and Dzogchen, with a transcendent Reality suspiciously sounding like monism. You choose.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Grigoris
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by Grigoris »

joy&peace wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:03 pm However, as an addendum, Buddha said our own logic and heart should tell us what is true.

So - don't believe just because teacher, scripture, authority say something, if it doesn't accord to the heart...

Anyway, cosmology in Buddhism is a interesting thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology
Because a deranged and ignorant mind will always know what is true, right? Whereas all those Buddhas and realised beings...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by Sādhaka »

The oldest Mercator maps showed a ‘Mount Meru’ (labeled as the “Rupes Nigra” there) at the North Pole surrounded by Four Continents. We still use the Mercator map today, of course minus the Rupes Nigra and Four Continents. Around the mid-1600’s the Rupes Nigra and Four Continents gradually started to disappear from newer editions of the Mercator map until they were completely gone.

Interestingly Gerardus Mercator was a friend of queen Elizabeth I’s court occultist-magician John Dee.



Image
Image



Some flat-Earthers like to run with this model, but if you look at an entire old Mercator map (meaning not just the bird’s-eye view of the North Pole), it looks like even the oldest Mercator maps were actually sphere-Earth maps.

Anyhow, the question is, how to reconcile this with Buddhist Cosmology? The resemblance of Mt. Meru with the Four Continents and the Rupes Nigra with Four Continents is too uncanny to ignore; however what then is Jambudvipa? Would Jambuvidpa be only the ‘southern’ small-ish island-continent by the North Pole? Or is Jambudvipa the entire known-world? Or perhaps the entire known-world is a extension of the small-ish Jambudvipa island-continent near the North Pole/Rupes Nigra?



Image
Image



Also, what about all the old tales of European and perhaps other explorers visiting these North-Pole lands? There are separate accounts, some separated by centuries, with no apparent common vested interest; therefore I don’t think we can simply write these stories off as mere folklore. Of course all this raises more questions than it provides answers.

Perhaps every cosmology is in a sense ‘arbitrary’.... I need to read Jamgon Kongtrul’s writing on Dzogchen Cosmology.
Last edited by Sādhaka on Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

The bottom two diagrams look like something Alex Grey could go and run with.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
joy&peace
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by joy&peace »

:techproblem:
Grigoris wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:10 pm
joy&peace wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:03 pm However, as an addendum, Buddha said our own logic and heart should tell us what is true.

So - don't believe just because teacher, scripture, authority say something, if it doesn't accord to the heart...

Anyway, cosmology in Buddhism is a interesting thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology
Because a deranged and ignorant mind will always know what is true, right? Whereas all those Buddhas and realised beings...
Excuse me? No, because Buddha said this.

He said don't accept anything he, scripture, or an authority said if it doesn't accord to one's reason.
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joy&peace
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by joy&peace »

Or as the Dalai Lama said, if Buddhism and science disagree, science should be deferred to. Sadhaka, great post. Cosmology in Buddhism is wonderful to study. One thing is that the different planes are all said to 'overlap,' so to speak.
"In the vertical cosmology, the universe exists of many worlds (lokāḥ; Devanagari: लोकाः) – one might say "planes/realms" – stacked one upon the next in layers. Each world corresponds to a mental state or a state of being".[9] A world is not, however, a location so much as it is the beings which compose it; it is sustained by their karma and if the beings in a world all die or disappear, the world disappears too.
Wkipedia article on Buddhist cosmology
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by Grigoris »

joy&peace wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:48 pm :techproblem:
Grigoris wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:10 pm
joy&peace wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:03 pm However, as an addendum, Buddha said our own logic and heart should tell us what is true.

So - don't believe just because teacher, scripture, authority say something, if it doesn't accord to the heart...

Anyway, cosmology in Buddhism is a interesting thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology
Because a deranged and ignorant mind will always know what is true, right? Whereas all those Buddhas and realised beings...
Excuse me? No, because Buddha said this.

He said don't accept anything he, scripture, or an authority said if it doesn't accord to one's reason.
Buddha never said that ABOUT HIMSELF.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Grigoris
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Re: What is Mount Meru?

Post by Grigoris »

joy&peace wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:52 pm Or as the Dalai Lama said, if Buddhism and science disagree, science should be deferred to.
Where did he say that and in relation to what?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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