Reincarnation in animals

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Kjigme
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Reincarnation in animals

Post by Kjigme » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:43 am

I hope i'm posting this post in the right section... anyways

What are you guys' take on reincarnation in animals? Are there any suttas where shakyamuni Buddha explicitly confirms this possibility? I have always believed in reincarnation, and i also believe that at a certain time in "history" we have reincarnated into animal when our emotion&mental faculties were still in its beginning stages. I'm curious to know what some of you think

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Aemilius
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Re: Reincarnation in animals

Post by Aemilius » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:46 am

from Kukkuravatika Sutta, The Dog-duty Ascetic:
(translation by Nanamoli Thera)

Here, Punna, someone develops the dog duty fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog-habit fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog mind fully and unstintingly, he develops dog behavior fully and unstintingly. Having done that, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of dogs. But if his view is such as this: 'By this virtue or duty or asceticism or religious life I shall become a (great) god or some (lesser) god,' that is wrong view in his case. Now there are two destinations for one with wrong view, I say: hell or the animal womb. So, Punna, if his dog duty is perfected, it will lead him to the company of dogs; if it is not, it will lead him to hell."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

pael
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Re: Reincarnation in animals

Post by pael » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:56 am

Aemilius wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:46 am
from Kukkuravatika Sutta, The Dog-duty Ascetic:
(translation by Nanamoli Thera)

Here, Punna, someone develops the dog duty fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog-habit fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog mind fully and unstintingly, he develops dog behavior fully and unstintingly. Having done that, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of dogs. But if his view is such as this: 'By this virtue or duty or asceticism or religious life I shall become a (great) god or some (lesser) god,' that is wrong view in his case. Now there are two destinations for one with wrong view, I say: hell or the animal womb. So, Punna, if his dog duty is perfected, it will lead him to the company of dogs; if it is not, it will lead him to hell."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html
Why dog-practice can lead in hell? Animal womb sounds logical.
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering

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heart
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Re: Reincarnation in animals

Post by heart » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:40 am

Kjigme wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:43 am
I hope i'm posting this post in the right section... anyways

What are you guys' take on reincarnation in animals? Are there any suttas where shakyamuni Buddha explicitly confirms this possibility? I have always believed in reincarnation, and i also believe that at a certain time in "history" we have reincarnated into animal when our emotion&mental faculties were still in its beginning stages. I'm curious to know what some of you think
The idea that reincarnation is a slow upward movement where you never revert is coming from Hinduism. It isn't Buddha Dharma. Your next life might be a dog or a scorpion or whatever.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Aemilius
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Re: Reincarnation in animals

Post by Aemilius » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:49 am

pael wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:56 am
Aemilius wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:46 am
from Kukkuravatika Sutta, The Dog-duty Ascetic:
(translation by Nanamoli Thera)

Here, Punna, someone develops the dog duty fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog-habit fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog mind fully and unstintingly, he develops dog behavior fully and unstintingly. Having done that, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of dogs. But if his view is such as this: 'By this virtue or duty or asceticism or religious life I shall become a (great) god or some (lesser) god,' that is wrong view in his case. Now there are two destinations for one with wrong view, I say: hell or the animal womb. So, Punna, if his dog duty is perfected, it will lead him to the company of dogs; if it is not, it will lead him to hell."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html
Why dog-practice can lead in hell? Animal womb sounds logical.
There is an another sutra in which the Blessed One talks about rebirth in the state of animals, Bala-Pandita sutta, the Fool and the Wise, there the various suffings inherent in the state of animals are described and stressed https://tipitaka.fandom.com/wiki/Balapandita_Sutta
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

Kaung
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Location: Yangon Burma

Re: Reincarnation in animals

Post by Kaung » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:12 pm

pael wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:56 am
Aemilius wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:46 am
from Kukkuravatika Sutta, The Dog-duty Ascetic:
(translation by Nanamoli Thera)

Here, Punna, someone develops the dog duty fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog-habit fully and unstintingly, he develops the dog mind fully and unstintingly, he develops dog behavior fully and unstintingly. Having done that, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of dogs. But if his view is such as this: 'By this virtue or duty or asceticism or religious life I shall become a (great) god or some (lesser) god,' that is wrong view in his case. Now there are two destinations for one with wrong view, I say: hell or the animal womb. So, Punna, if his dog duty is perfected, it will lead him to the company of dogs; if it is not, it will lead him to hell."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html
Why dog-practice can lead in hell? Animal womb sounds logical.
If you read the lines carefully,the Buddha was referring the belief that dog-practice will lead to higher rebirths(which is of course,wrong view)results in rebirth in hell realms.So it could be assumed that,practise like a dog and you become a dog in the next life.Practice like a dog and BELIEVE it will lead to higher rebirths/liberation=hell because it is a wrong view.

Kjigme
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Re: Reincarnation in animals

Post by Kjigme » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:39 am

What are the faculties that a scorpion should have in order to be reborn a human?
Or should he be a primate first? Since there is no evolution or "progress" we have to believe that a scorpion has the ability evolve to that stage.. come to think of it.. you need to be human in order to achieve enlightenment so in a sense there is a sense of progress.

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Aemilius
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Re: Reincarnation in animals

Post by Aemilius » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:53 pm

If you look into the sutras or suttas where the dependent origination is taught, i.e. the twelve links of becoming, in the link of birth the six realms or the three dhatus are explained, implied and included. This means that birth in an animal realm is an inherent possibility in this teaching, even when it is not spelled out or emphasized. It is actually mentioned in some of these sutras, and definitely it is taught in the commentaries to those sutras. Some of the sutras that teach Dependent Origination: Arya Salistamba sutra, Sutra of the Seedling of Rice; Gathering the Meanings, Arthavinishcaya sutra; Mahanidana sutta; Paticcasamuppada-vibhanga sutta, etc... Often the teaching mentions only birth as a human or as a god/deva, because that creates a more positive anticipation for one's future.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

Kjigme
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Reincarnation in animals

Post by Kjigme » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:44 am

Aemilius wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:53 pm
If you look into the sutras or suttas where the dependent origination is taught, i.e. the twelve links of becoming, in the link of birth the six realms or the three dhatus are explained, implied and included. This means that birth in an animal realm is an inherent possibility in this teaching, even when it is not spelled out or emphasized. It is actually mentioned in some of these sutras, and definitely it is taught in the commentaries to those sutras. Some of the sutras that teach Dependent Origination: Arya Salistamba sutra, Sutra of the Seedling of Rice; Gathering the Meanings, Arthavinishcaya sutra; Mahanidana sutta; Paticcasamuppada-vibhanga sutta, etc... Often the teaching mentions only birth as a human or as a god/deva, because that creates a more positive anticipation for one's future.
Thank you :anjali:

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