Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Tata1
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tata1 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:55 pm

Tongnyid Dorje wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:35 pm
Tata1 wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:25 pm
Tongnyid Dorje wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:27 pm


Rinpoche was asked by Karmapa to teach, he didnt start by himself. He had a letter from Karmapa. All of Rinpoches student dont have his complete lineage, nor even SMS instructors. He didnt passed His complete Longsal to anybody, except perhaps this unknown china!nepal guy and His children. I personaly recieved "only" two elaborate wangs from Him thanks to SMS training and it wasnt part of His Longsal cycle.
Have you read the karmapas letter? Have you heard the karmapa say it? As much as i find a lot of inspiration in the karmapa asking rimpoche to teach it still based in faith since i was not even born when the 16th Karmapa was around. The confirmation for me and what makes me choose one teacher over the other eventually is his or her ability to mature me as a student.

Having linage does not mean having the complete teachings of rimpoche. Some of rimpoches students may (or may not) be able to comunicate the dzogchen principle without ever even metioning longsal. If you have realization you can comunicate if you dont you cant. There is not much more than that
Im sorry, but this is pretty naive view. What we are talking here is future of IDC and Rinpoches transmission. If you want to follow a dzogchen teacher, there are plenty around who can really help you with the practice, but this is not continuation of Rinpoches teachings in any way. His teachings are very specific, and yes its called Longsal.
Rimpoche did not only teach longsal. Thats reduccionist.
Linage holder doesnt mean to hold the entirly if your master teachers. For example some rimpoches apoint as a linage holder of their dzogchen teachings to one guy and maybe another for a specific set of tantric teachings.
For example mingyur rimpoche is a linage holder a specific
Dzogchen cycle trassmited by Nyoshul Khen but that doesnt mean that he holds the linage of the entire things that Nyoshul Khen transmited in his lifetime.

And no. This conversation started with your statment about who would receieve teachings from a "random" guy refering to the posibility of reaciving dzogchen from a student of rimpoche.

Who will take care of IDC is a different issue as i stated above.

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Tongnyid Dorje
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tongnyid Dorje » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:58 pm

whatever you say!

this whole debate I started to discuss the future of IDC and Rinpoches transmission after year of mourning was over...

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Tongnyid Dorje
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tongnyid Dorje » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:02 pm

Tongnyid Dorje wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:33 pm
So, mourning time is over for few weeks and still no announcenment about how will be community in future, what are plans about carrying transmission to possible new commers, who will lead community and so on. I suppose we have here some guys from international gakyil. If so, could anyone comment on this questions, please? What are the plans how will Rinpoches special transmission survive more then our own generation? If there are any...
Sincerely thank you for answers!

:namaste:

Tata1
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tata1 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:15 pm

Tongnyid Dorje wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:02 pm
Tongnyid Dorje wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:33 pm
So, mourning time is over for few weeks and still no announcenment about how will be community in future, what are plans about carrying transmission to possible new commers, who will lead community and so on. I suppose we have here some guys from international gakyil. If so, could anyone comment on this questions, please? What are the plans how will Rinpoches special transmission survive more then our own generation? If there are any...
Sincerely thank you for answers!

:namaste:
Yeah i understand buddy. I was just responding to that particular point on your post.

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:25 pm

Miroku wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:03 pm
in the context of IDC I would be especially careful as it would be a shame if one such claim destroyed and ripped apart the community.
Absolutely.

We are not in Tibet, nor in India. And we are not talking about a hypothetical traditional society. The DC was centred unquestionably and absolutely on Rinpoche, who, before he passed away, did clearly say that there are two persons in the DC who can teach whatever he had taught them. Neither has been officially appointed as his dharma heir, as far as I know, which means that the DC will not and cannot continue as before. If Yeshi or Yuchen start teaching (and do so as a DC endeavour), however, there is a good chance that the DC has a future which can accommodate old timers but is open also towards new members.

How many present members will be satisfied with that new, Yeshi- or Yuchen-featuring DC is another issue (and I wonder if there is any chance of them taking the father's mantle in its entirety ... Unlikely, I should think). But it is the best one can hope for, it would appear
To offer care and affection to sentient beings
In desperate situations who lack protection
Brings just as much merit as the meditation
On emptiness with compassion as its core—
So it has been said by glorious Lord Atisha.

Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche

If you cannot generate an altruistic mind, even extensive retreat will be of not much benefit.
Garchen Triptrul Rinpoche

Tata1
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tata1 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:59 am

Do you guys think that there has to be one guy in charge like with rimpoche? Or is it viable to work in a more community way?

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Fa Dao » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:13 am

I dont think there would be a problem with both son and daughter of Rinpoche stepping up and sharing the responsibility...but then again, Im not in the inner circle...would be nice though to get Rinpoches perspective from both of them...
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:18 am

Tata1 wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:59 am
Do you guys think that there has to be one guy in charge like with rimpoche? Or is it viable to work in a more community way?
I think the biggest challenge facing the DC will be to become something that serves the needs of members now that Rinpoche is not at the center of things. Operating with the same dynamic only without him (as has happened so far) seems like it may not be a long term solution. Beyond the issue of no DI = no new members, I am not so sure that the current setup will work long term for all older members either, time will tell I guess.

I am not sure it is even about centralized leadership at all....at any rate I think it's inevitable that things will change significantly.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:10 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:18 am
Tata1 wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:59 am
Do you guys think that there has to be one guy in charge like with rimpoche? Or is it viable to work in a more community way?
I think the biggest challenge facing the DC will be to become something that serves the needs of members now that Rinpoche is not at the center of things. Operating with the same dynamic only without him (as has happened so far) seems like it may not be a long term solution. Beyond the issue of no DI = no new members, I am not so sure that the current setup will work long term for all older members either, time will tell I guess.

I am not sure it is even about centralized leadership at all....at any rate I think it's inevitable that things will change significantly.
Very much this.

Tata1's question is very interesting. Vajrayana has traditionally been by definition a feudal (and patriarchal) phenomenon at least insofar as the dominant shape of the master-disciple relationship goes. The DC was of course both this and something different. With Rinpoche's passing some people may want to get rid of the residual feudalism all but entirely, which is feasible but will have an impact upon the master-disciple relationship, of course -- if the DC ever gets a new master, that is.
To offer care and affection to sentient beings
In desperate situations who lack protection
Brings just as much merit as the meditation
On emptiness with compassion as its core—
So it has been said by glorious Lord Atisha.

Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche

If you cannot generate an altruistic mind, even extensive retreat will be of not much benefit.
Garchen Triptrul Rinpoche

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Vasana
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Vasana » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:33 am

I saw this on facebook. Drajyor phonetics event with Fabian Sanders this weekend. In the UK but with a webcast.

https://www.facebook.com/events/704882753341952/
https://www.lekdanling.org/whats-on/#event=31715457
ཨོཾ ་ མ ་ ཎི ་ པ ་ དྨེ ་ ཧཱུྃ ། འ ་ ཨ ་ ཧ ་ ཤ ་ ས ་ མ །
Om Mani Peme Hum ། 'A Ah Ha Sha Sa Ma
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florin
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by florin » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:14 pm

There is something churning in the background. Something unconfirmed.

climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:51 pm

Certainly a surprise, especially based on what has been said here. I wonder if this is a one-off, or the start of a whole new phase for the DC.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:08 pm

climb-up wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:51 pm
Certainly a surprise, especially based on what has been said here. I wonder if this is a one-off, or the start of a whole new phase for the DC.
If what is? What are you guys talkin' bout?
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:23 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:08 pm
climb-up wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:51 pm
Certainly a surprise, especially based on what has been said here. I wonder if this is a one-off, or the start of a whole new phase for the DC.
If what is? What are you guys talkin' bout?
There seems to be an event at Merigar in April I think with Yeshi giving transmission. There were some screenshots at Ask the Acharya and it seems legit. I saw the application form, but there was a weird thing with not having the transmission from Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:26 pm

Miroku wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:23 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:08 pm
climb-up wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:51 pm
Certainly a surprise, especially based on what has been said here. I wonder if this is a one-off, or the start of a whole new phase for the DC.
If what is? What are you guys talkin' bout?
There seems to be an event at Merigar in April I think with Yeshi giving transmission. There were some screenshots at Ask the Acharya and it seems legit. I saw the application form, but there was a weird thing with not having the transmission from Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche.
Sorry for the vagueness, I was think there would have been a public announcement by now, and then wasn’t sure what to say since there hadn’t been.

What was the weird thing about not having transmission?
I only saw the Italian application form and something about getting a certificate afterwards ...and having to sign an NDA.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:55 pm

climb-up wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:26 pm
Miroku wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:23 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:08 pm


If what is? What are you guys talkin' bout?
There seems to be an event at Merigar in April I think with Yeshi giving transmission. There were some screenshots at Ask the Acharya and it seems legit. I saw the application form, but there was a weird thing with not having the transmission from Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche.
Sorry for the vagueness, I was think there would have been a public announcement by now, and then wasn’t sure what to say since there hadn’t been.

What was the weird thing about not having transmission?
I only saw the Italian application form and something about getting a certificate afterwards ...and having to sign an NDA.
I saw the application too and right first question was to confirm that one has not received transmission from Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. The NDA is also bit ... strange.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:01 pm

Miroku wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:55 pm
I saw the application too and right first question was to confirm that one has not received transmission from Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. The NDA is also bit ... strange.
As a friend of my families would constantly say, excitedly and with a gleam in his eye:
“The plot thickens!” :smile: :shrug:

florin
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by florin » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:20 pm

What i find curious is that this event is not listed on any of the oficial sites of IDC so my question is, is this event organised outside of the control of IDC ?
Or is just that they haven’t got to add it yet because is too early, fresh etc ? And an NDA ? Is this normal ?

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Ignorant_Fool » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:02 pm

climb-up wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:26 pm

I only saw the Italian application form and something about getting a certificate afterwards ...and having to sign an NDA.
Could you share the link to that form?

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:32 pm

Ignorant_Fool wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:02 pm
climb-up wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:26 pm

I only saw the Italian application form and something about getting a certificate afterwards ...and having to sign an NDA.
Could you share the link to that form?
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... L4IwZbqLsI

It is official, albeit not globally so just yet.
To offer care and affection to sentient beings
In desperate situations who lack protection
Brings just as much merit as the meditation
On emptiness with compassion as its core—
So it has been said by glorious Lord Atisha.

Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche

If you cannot generate an altruistic mind, even extensive retreat will be of not much benefit.
Garchen Triptrul Rinpoche

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