Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post Reply
bcol01
Posts: 218
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:20 pm

Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by bcol01 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:39 pm

If a person finds something in Nichiren Buddhism that works and that they feel is true, why would they keep jumping in and out of other religions?

User avatar
Könchok Thrinley
Former staff member
Posts: 2069
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am

Re: Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:45 pm

bcol01 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:39 pm
If a person finds something in Nichiren Buddhism that works and that they feel is true, why would they keep jumping in and out of other religions?
They might find one aspect true but lack the understanding to trust/believe the rest. Some may take vipassana or mettá meditation, yet never take a refuge and examine the nature of our existence to even try to understand the first noble truth.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 10753
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:55 pm

bcol01 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:39 pm
If a person finds something in Nichiren Buddhism that works and that they feel is true, why would they keep jumping in and out of other religions?
Confusion and befuddlement is the default state of samsara.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

bcol01
Posts: 218
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:20 pm

Re: Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by bcol01 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:00 am

My understanding is that staying the course and following the Lotus Sutra is quite difficult. What advice would you give a person who keeps jumping at every other interesting religion?
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:55 pm
bcol01 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:39 pm
If a person finds something in Nichiren Buddhism that works and that they feel is true, why would they keep jumping in and out of other religions?
Confusion and befuddlement is the default state of samsara.

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 10753
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:30 am

bcol01 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:00 am
My understanding is that staying the course and following the Lotus Sutra is quite difficult. What advice would you give a person who keeps jumping at every other interesting religion?
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:55 pm
bcol01 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:39 pm
If a person finds something in Nichiren Buddhism that works and that they feel is true, why would they keep jumping in and out of other religions?
Confusion and befuddlement is the default state of samsara.
I'm not a Nichiren practitioner so my advice might be completely off.

My own take is that "believing" in things is usually a sham, all kinds of people have "beliefs", nine times out of ten our supposed beliefs are just manifestations of the Eight Worldy Dharmas, and we don't really have the faith we claim to. When we manage to move past those and actually gain faith based on lived experience of the teachings - that is something else, we are going beyond mere belief.

Just adopting a belief system like trying on clothing is what a lot of people do, and it doesn't mean anything, because beliefs of that sort are fickle. Our conceptual mind consumes them voraciously, and has pretty wishy-washy preferences - it really just needs something new and shiny. It's not practice to be that way, but it's what we do a lot of the time.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

illarraza
Posts: 794
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by illarraza » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:59 pm

bcol01 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:00 am
My understanding is that staying the course and following the Lotus Sutra is quite difficult. What advice would you give a person who keeps jumping at every other interesting religion?
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:55 pm
bcol01 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:39 pm
If a person finds something in Nichiren Buddhism that works and that they feel is true, why would they keep jumping in and out of other religions?
Confusion and befuddlement is the default state of samsara.
Mastering brain surgery is more difficult than mastering grave digging. Attaining Supreme and Perfect Enlightenment is no less difficult than becoming a brain surgeon.

Mark

tkp67
Posts: 1338
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by tkp67 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:10 am

Read and contemplate the Lotus Sutra

Their is pragmatic reasoning behind the gradious immensity of what is being explained.
“Flower Virtue, this bodhisattva Wonderful Sound can save and protect the various living beings of the saha world. This bodhisattva Wonderful Sound performs various transformations, manifesting himself in different forms in this saha land and preaching this sutra for the sake of living beings, and yet his transcendental powers, his transformations, and his wisdom suffer no injury or diminution thereby. This bodhisattva employs various types of wisdom to illuminate the saha world, causing each one among all the living beings to acquire the appropriate understanding, and does the same in all the worlds in the ten directions numerous as Ganges sands.

“If the form of a voice-hearer is what is needed to bring salvation, he manifests himself in the form of a voice-hearer and proceeds to preach the Law. If the form of a pratyekabuddha will p.337bring salvation, he manifests himself in the form of a pratyekabuddha and preaches the Law. If the form of a bodhisattva will bring salvation, he manifests a bodhisattva form and preaches the Law. If the form of a buddha will bring salvation, he immediately manifests a buddha form and preaches the Law. Thus he manifests himself in various different forms, depending upon what is appropriate for salvation. And if it is appropriate to enter extinction in order to bring salvation, he manifests himself as entering extinction.

“Flower Virtue, the bodhisattva mahasattva Wonderful Sound has acquired the great transcendental powers and the power of wisdom that enable him to do all this!”

At that time the bodhisattva Flower Virtue said to the Buddha, “World-Honored One, this bodhisattva Wonderful Sound has planted the roots of goodness very deeply. World-Honored One, what samadhi does this bodhisattva dwell in, that he is able to carry out all these transformations and manifestations to save living beings?”

The Buddha said to Bodhisattva Flower Virtue, “Good man, this samadhi is called manifesting all kinds of bodies. The bodhisattva Wonderful Sound, dwelling in this samadhi, is able in this manner to enrich and benefit immeasurable living beings.”

When the Buddha preached this chapter on Bodhisattva Wonderful Sound, the eighty-four thousand persons who had come with Bodhisattva Wonderful Sound all acquired this samadhi enabling them to manifest all kinds of bodies, and the immeasurable bodhisattvas in this saha world also acquired this samadhi and dharani.

At that time the bodhisattva mahasattva Wonderful Sound, having finished offering alms to Shakyamuni Buddha and to the tower of Many Treasures Buddha, returned to his original land. The lands that he passed through on his way quaked and trembled in six different ways, jeweled lotus flowers rained down, and hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of different kinds of music played.

After he had arrived in his original land and was surrounded by his eighty-four thousand bodhisattvas, he proceeded to the p.338place of the buddha Pure Flower Constellation King Wisdom and addressed the buddha, saying, “World-Honored One, I visited the saha world, enriched and benefited the living beings, saw Shakyamuni Buddha and the tower of Many Treasures Buddha, and offered obeisance and alms to them. I also saw Bodhisattva Manjushri, prince of the Dharma, and I saw Bodhisattva Medicine King, Bodhisattva Gaining Diligent Exertion Power, Bodhisattva Brave Donor, and others. And I made it possible for these eighty-four thousand bodhisattvas to gain the samadhi enabling them to manifest all kinds of bodies.”

When the Buddha preached this chapter on the comings and goings of Bodhisattva Wonderful Sound, forty-two thousand sons of gods gained the truth of the birthlessness of all phenomena, and Bodhisattva Flower Virtue gained the Lotus samadhi.

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 2391
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by Minobu » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:50 am

I've been very fortunate to be able to totally immerse myself into the various religions and schools of buddhism.
I was indoctrinated into atheism due to my father being a beatnik with outlandish ideas in the 50's...

those outlandish ideas were fertile soil.

So brought buddhism home and he died chanting nam myoho renge kyo ,witnessed by members at his deathbed after he had slipped into a coma...

30 years later or so weird stuff happened with what was deemed the Holy spirit by a very old Anglican Minister..

He gave me his Bible that he preached with and it sort of spoke to me...not literally but through some weird thing of me putting me finger in the area of the new testament God spoke through his orange underlined stuff..

very very cool...

it allowed me to see the middle way to all this God / existence non existence / reality we study to put to words...

but words don't work...lol..

i recall back on esangha where i showed true sunyata and some nichiren american priest dug it...

here it was egomaniacal time for some, trolled over sunyata...only here in the other sections...

place is gross at times... filth act like Buddhists and try their best to hurt you...


any way i have this trick that i can totally turn .....it's all been good ..

hey in the net flix westworld the AI said humans have a part of their brain geared to believing in God....weird eh ..is it true?

are we hard wired to think about this stuff?

neat if we are ...that's evolution...

so yeah if thats the case then of course a gazillion religions pop up...

tkp67
Posts: 1338
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by tkp67 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:29 am

Minobu wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:50 am
i recall back on esangha where i showed true sunyata and some nichiren american priest dug it...

here it was egomaniacal time for some, trolled over sunyata...only here in the other sections...

place is gross at times... filth act like Buddhists and try their best to hurt you...


any way i have this trick that i can totally turn .....it's all been good ..

hey in the net flix westworld the AI said humans have a part of their brain geared to believing in God....weird eh ..is it true?

are we hard wired to think about this stuff?

neat if we are ...that's evolution...

so yeah if thats the case then of course a gazillion religions pop up...
Add the ten realms to the equation

Sentient life is "wired" via consciousness/mind/body to accord to these realms relative to cause, condition and capacity

Sentient life has the capacity for liberation as a feature of sentience. The realm of pratyekabuddha is a proof of this. Sentient life has the capacity to share this liberation bodhisattva realm is proof of this. Sentient life has the capacity to do both in a single existence, Shakyamuni was proof of this.

while the buddha teaches an awakening to pure perfect and complete enlightenment we only understand it in accord to this.
The equality of the Buddha’s preaching
is like a rain of a single flavor,
but depending upon the nature of the living being,
the way in which it is received is not uniform,
just as the various plants and trees
each receive the moisture in a different manner.

The Buddha employs this parable
as an expedient means to open up and reveal the matter,
using various kinds of words and phrases
and expounding the single Law,
but in terms of the buddha wisdom
this is no more than one drop of the ocean.
I rain down the Dharma rain,
filling the whole world,
and this single-flavored Dharma
is practiced by each according to the individual’s power.

User avatar
Rick
Posts: 2204
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:05 am

Re: Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by Rick » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:23 am

bcol01 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:39 pm
If a person finds something in Nichiren Buddhism that works and that they feel is true, why would they keep jumping in and out of other religions?
Maybe they find things that work and they feel are true in several religions, philosophies, traditions.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 2391
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by Minobu » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:40 am

tkp67 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:29 am
Minobu wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:50 am
i recall back on esangha where i showed true sunyata and some nichiren american priest dug it...

here it was egomaniacal time for some, trolled over sunyata...only here in the other sections...

place is gross at times... filth act like Buddhists and try their best to hurt you...


any way i have this trick that i can totally turn .....it's all been good ..

hey in the net flix westworld the AI said humans have a part of their brain geared to believing in God....weird eh ..is it true?

are we hard wired to think about this stuff?

neat if we are ...that's evolution...

so yeah if thats the case then of course a gazillion religions pop up...
Add the ten realms to the equation

Sentient life is "wired" via consciousness/mind/body to accord to these realms relative to cause, condition and capacity

Sentient life has the capacity for liberation as a feature of sentience. The realm of pratyekabuddha is a proof of this. Sentient life has the capacity to share this liberation bodhisattva realm is proof of this. Sentient life has the capacity to do both in a single existence, Shakyamuni was proof of this.

while the buddha teaches an awakening to pure perfect and complete enlightenment we only understand it in accord to this.
The equality of the Buddha’s preaching
is like a rain of a single flavor,
but depending upon the nature of the living being,
the way in which it is received is not uniform,
just as the various plants and trees
each receive the moisture in a different manner.

The Buddha employs this parable
as an expedient means to open up and reveal the matter,
using various kinds of words and phrases
and expounding the single Law,
but in terms of the buddha wisdom
this is no more than one drop of the ocean.
I rain down the Dharma rain,
filling the whole world,
and this single-flavored Dharma
is practiced by each according to the individual’s power.
Very nicely done..indepth.

not to dilute what you have so importantly given us, there is my Dharma wheel thing...Geshe la explained to me over and over when the Buddha Turns the Dharma Wheel all sorts of religions and philosophies and schools of thought pop up all over Samsaric existence no matter where you are you will bump into one. they seem different but like it says above all are of one flavour. that flavour is as long as the teaching contains the world of Bodhisattva then it came from the turning of the Dharma Wheel.

tkp67
Posts: 1338
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by tkp67 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:18 pm

No dilution but rather ties into the teaching from Nichiren that we need to realize a karmic bond with Shakyamuni.

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 2391
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by Minobu » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:34 pm

tkp67 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:18 pm
No dilution but rather ties into the teaching from Nichiren that we need to realize a karmic bond with Shakyamuni.
it was weird but when i first went to a Tibetan Buddhist Gompa very shortly when i gor to know the Rinpoche and tried to tell him about gakki and Shoshu he said , "well you are praying and meditating with Buddha ?

It was weird when i told him we were not allowed to meditate or focus on Lord Sakyamuni Buddha..

To actually focus on Lord Buddha without the false doctrine was hard to adjust to.

At least now if one really wants to find out the real deal they can ...but i bet fear keeps gakki adherents away from even looking...

so sad....dreadful..

in spite of all that and everything else i still support the Gakki ...they still encourage people to chant at least...
and they do have a system in place to help beginners not lapse..the ends do justify the means in any Nichiren setting...

but i think the best is to stay open minded and read up as much as possible from all the sects and piece it all together.

i think even die hard gakki members who come here and read , start to know in their hearts they need to adjust the ailerons .

by the way much of what you write is awe inspiring for me...for real...you're alright.

I love watching stuff that i have not come to terms with or know about come in focus online here.

thanks for being you...

d

tkp67
Posts: 1338
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by tkp67 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:33 pm

I can't say that I have meditated on Shakyamuni directly. I can't say that I have meditated on Nichren directly.

When I chant I don't focus on any particular thought while chanting. I let my mind go to the daimoku. I rarely chant with specific purpose and if I do it is to remove my mind from unproductive processes. I have been keenly interested in the nature of Shakyamuni's enlightenment as taught/understood by Nichiren. So in essence when I chant it is to know the nature of both Nichiren's and Shakyamuni's enlightenment.

I think it is reasonable to say that Nichiren himself understood the totality of Shakyamuni's complete and perfect enlightenment and this is what moved him to propagate the lotus sutra through daimoku, the correct and perfect seed for a correct and perfect sutra.

:anjali:

Riju
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:50 am

Re: Why are some people so indecisive about which religion they believe in?

Post by Riju » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:55 pm

Because religion is divisive and hence harmful.

Guatam Budha said He is s Budh (It means WISDOM). All along he spoke about practical methods in sutras, and He also spoke about the WISDOM of this universe.

And the first mistake we did was to give it title of religion.
And subsequently we further divided in to Mahayana, theravada, Nirchiren etc.

Post Reply

Return to “Nichiren”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests