Enlightened Society

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
Danny
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Enlightened Society

Post by Danny »

Off spin topic to discuss big ideas for an enlightened society. Let’s use the Buddhist teachings as a framework.
Malcolm
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Malcolm »

Danny wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:37 pm Off spin topic to discuss big ideas for an enlightened society. Let’s use the Buddhist teachings as a framework.
Buddha never did. That wasn't his job. You cannot have an awakened society with people who are not awake. The best one can hope for is society based on reasonable secular ethics concerning the economy, governance, education, and so forth.
Danny
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Danny »

Ok so we start with education, if we had to strip out all the indoctrination, what basic ethical education do we teach the youngsters? And does that education belong at home or in a school?
Could a reasonable ethical standard of education be reached by all? What would be the final aim of that education?
Malcolm
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Malcolm »

Danny wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:55 pm Ok so we start with education, if we had to strip out all the indoctrination, what basic ethical education do we teach the youngsters? And does that education belong at home or in a school?
Could a reasonable ethical standard of education be reached by all? What would be the final aim of that education?
The aim of education is to produce people capable of educating themselves. For that, a high level of literacy is required. I would argue that reading-heavy, secular, evidence-based curriculum is a desiderata. Our present STEM-oriented education is producing students with no understanding of history, literature, and so on. In fact, for the most part, American students still read and write at an elementary school level by the time they get to college, which is why English courses are required for all freshman college students. It's truly pathetic. I understand that this is not necessarily the case in Europe. But in the US, we churn out dummies by the millions.
Last edited by Malcolm on Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Danny
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Danny »

Free education with no barriers to all.
Norwegian
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Norwegian »

Danny wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:15 pm Free education with no barriers to all.
Welcome to Scandinavia and the Nordic countries.
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra
Danny
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Danny »

Norwegian wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:19 pm
Danny wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:15 pm Free education with no barriers to all.
Welcome to Scandinavia and the Nordic countries.
I’m assuming realistically, IQ is not distributed equally, not everyone can, or should be a PhD, we would still need crafts and trades people to make things for everyone’s benefit. How does that work out in your part of the world?
Malcolm
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Malcolm »

Danny wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:24 pm
Norwegian wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:19 pm
Danny wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:15 pm Free education with no barriers to all.
Welcome to Scandinavia and the Nordic countries.
I’m assuming realistically, IQ is not distributed equally, not everyone can, or should be a PhD, we would still need crafts and trades people to make things for everyone’s benefit. How does that work out in your part of the world?
Some of the smartest people I know are craftspeople. Some of them however could have definitely benefitted from a more rounded education.
Danny
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Danny »

What I’m asking really is the value we put onto skills, and not just monetary value, but also a social value. Class barriers must also not be included in our enlightened society. Must have a mutual respect across the board. The man or woman that builds the road, the bridge for others to cycle on to work has a equal value in society.
Steel
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Steel »

Danny wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:01 pm What I’m asking really is the value we put onto skills, and not just monetary value, but also a social value. Class barriers must also not be included in our enlightened society. Must have a mutual respect across the board. The man or woman that builds the road, the bridge for others to cycle on to work has a equal value in society.
Blue collars don't get any respect from society. Someone with a 4 year degree in gender studies and no job prospects will be treated better than the trades person who make more than six figures.
Malcolm
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Malcolm »

Steel wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:20 pm
Danny wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:01 pm What I’m asking really is the value we put onto skills, and not just monetary value, but also a social value. Class barriers must also not be included in our enlightened society. Must have a mutual respect across the board. The man or woman that builds the road, the bridge for others to cycle on to work has a equal value in society.
Blue collars don't get any respect from society. Someone with a 4 year degree in gender studies and no job prospects will be treated better than the trades person who make more than six figures.
Really? Is that why there are so many PhD baristas and waitrons?
Danny
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Danny »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:40 pm
Steel wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:20 pm
Danny wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:01 pm What I’m asking really is the value we put onto skills, and not just monetary value, but also a social value. Class barriers must also not be included in our enlightened society. Must have a mutual respect across the board. The man or woman that builds the road, the bridge for others to cycle on to work has a equal value in society.
Blue collars don't get any respect from society. Someone with a 4 year degree in gender studies and no job prospects will be treated better than the trades person who make more than six figures.
Really? Is that why there are so many PhD baristas and waitrons?
I don’t know what that means, sorry
Malcolm
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Malcolm »

Danny wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:10 am
Malcolm wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:40 pm
Steel wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:20 pm
Blue collars don't get any respect from society. Someone with a 4 year degree in gender studies and no job prospects will be treated better than the trades person who make more than six figures.
Really? Is that why there are so many PhD baristas and waitrons?
I don’t know what that means, sorry
People with PhD's who cannot find jobs in their fields, and so must make lattes and cappucinos and wait on tables.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Danny wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:10 am
Malcolm wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:40 pm
Steel wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:20 pm
Blue collars don't get any respect from society. Someone with a 4 year degree in gender studies and no job prospects will be treated better than the trades person who make more than six figures.
Really? Is that why there are so many PhD baristas and waitrons?
I don’t know what that means, sorry
It means, among other things, that (for a long time now, actually) high level degrees do not get you a job.

Speaking of which, the original comment is a whole bag of worms in terms of values, given that we are talking about an "enlightened society". The comment seems to indicate that 1) people's value should be predicated on their income, and 2) That there is no value to education beyond a paycheck.

Regardless, higher education has become harder to obtain, and somehow also less useful outside a few fields, which is weird.
Bundokji
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Bundokji »

In my view, the idea of enlightened society is not separate from the idea of an enlightened individual. Usually, an enlightened individual is portrayed as someone who spent time trying to figure out the truth about the world, and then reemerged as a teacher or a reformer. The world is portrayed as corrupt and deluded and in need for guidance from that individual.

An enlightened society is needed due to the same sense of general dissatisfaction with the world.
The cleverest defenders of faith are its greatest enemies: for their subtleties engender doubt and stimulate the mind. -- Will Durant
tkp67
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by tkp67 »

Working towards this goal does seem to be an inherent part of human existence.
Steel
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Steel »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:28 am
Danny wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:10 am
Malcolm wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:40 pm

Really? Is that why there are so many PhD baristas and waitrons?
I don’t know what that means, sorry
People with PhD's who cannot find jobs in their fields, and so must make lattes and cappucinos and wait on tables.
Yes, It would truly suck to spend so much money and years in college and not get the job you are looking for.
Malcolm
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Malcolm »

Steel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:43 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:28 am
Danny wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:10 am

I don’t know what that means, sorry
People with PhD's who cannot find jobs in their fields, and so must make lattes and cappucinos and wait on tables.
Yes, It would truly suck to spend so much money and years in college and not get the job you are looking for.
Yes. And, to bring up Danny's point, since they never learned how to make anything useful, they can't even get a good "working class" job, with which to pay off their loans.

In reality, education should consist of both reading, etc., as well as learning the basics of useful things like farming, carpentry, plumbing etc. As for myself, I am told I am an excellent cook. I worked in food industry for many years when I was in my late teens and 20's. If I need to get a job flipping burgers, no problem. I am something of an expert on that subject alone. Never been afraid to work, and though I come from an upper middle class family, I never graduated from a western school, not one, unless you count 6th grade. So I worked a lot of "shit" jobs. Dishwashing, construction, prep cooking, etc., etc.
Pero
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Pero »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:06 pm I never graduated from a western school, not one, unless you count 6th grade.
Why not? :smile:
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
Malcolm
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Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Malcolm »

Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:20 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:06 pm I never graduated from a western school, not one, unless you count 6th grade.
Why not? :smile:
Oppositional personality disorder.
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