Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

people really don’t understand history of SMS, and why rinpoche originally created it. It didn’t work out as he originally planned.
climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:30 am people really don’t understand history of SMS, and why rinpoche originally created it.
Oh, fair enough.
I use it base outline to help develop my ...well, base, for my practice and it’s so wonderful; by I was under the impression that it was for teachers and continuing the tradition.
Is that wrong?
What is the history and original intent?
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

climb-up wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:35 am
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:30 am people really don’t understand history of SMS, and why rinpoche originally created it.
Oh, fair enough.
I use it base outline to help develop my ...well, base, for my practice and it’s so wonderful; by I was under the impression that it was for teachers and continuing the tradition.
Is that wrong?
What is the history and original intent?
It was always to create teachers, take a level, teach a level was original idea, but about 6 years in the boss was dissatisfied. His original idea was that people who passed level four would be equipped to give introduction. He also stated in one SMS training that people following klong goal were making better progress than SMS people. For years I have watched people extolling sms teachers, but it really has not been as people have led themselves to believe.
Last edited by Malcolm on Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fa Dao
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Fa Dao »

ok...so..I am just going to toss this out there and see where it goes..I am not good at organizing things so if someone wants to try and run with this, be my guest..
As people here know Rinpoche gave a transmission for Vajra Bridge of Longde which he said is the essentials of it. From my research there are 2 volumes in the Nyingma Kama that are devoted to the Vajra Bridge teachings/practices, and commentaries. Volumes 18 and 19 in one version and 32 and 33 in another.
So what I was thinking is 2 pronged...maybe a group of us could find a Nyinma Lama willing to give us the transmission for these 2 volumes..perhaps over skype or zoom (or something like that) and do it over time..for example: 1 hour a week or so until it is completed. And then we could try and find a translator that would be willing to translate it all into English..I would be willing to chip in whatever I could for a project like this to donate to a Lama and pay a translator...just want to see if there would be any interest from any of Rinpoches students for this....
Thoughts?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

Fa Dao wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:44 am ok...so..I am just going to toss this out there and see where it goes..I am not good at organizing things so if someone wants to try and run with this, be my guest..
As people here know Rinpoche gave a transmission for Vajra Bridge of Longde which he said is the essentials of it. From my research there are 2 volumes in the Nyingma Kama that are devoted to the Vajra Bridge teachings/practices, and commentaries. Volumes 18 and 19 in one version and 32 and 33 in another.
So what I was thinking is 2 pronged...maybe a group of us could find a Nyinma Lama willing to give us the transmission for these 2 volumes..perhaps over skype or zoom (or something like that) and do it over time..for example: 1 hour a week or so until it is completed. And then we could try and find a translator that would be willing to translate it all into English..I would be willing to chip in whatever I could for a project like this to donate to a Lama and pay a translator...just want to see if there would be any interest from any of Rinpoches students for this....
Thoughts?
Your better off moving on to man ngag sde. Rinpoche advised people at 2015 yang ti retreat not to remain stuck in klong sde.

I’ve already translated a goodly portion of the long vajra bridge. It’s not what people imagine. The first volume is three histories, written by Kunzang Dorje, called vajra bridge. Second volume is various practices no one practices anymore, though there is a lot of interesting material there.
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

Just a general comment: Frankly, some people have their heads so stuck up the ass of “authority” and “authorization” they have forgotten the real meaning of dzogchen teachings.
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PeterC
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by PeterC »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:42 am It was always to create teachers, take a level, teach a level was original idea, but about 6 years in the boss was dissatisfied. His original idea was that people who passed level four would be equipped to give introduction. He also stated in one SMS training that people following klong goal were making better progress than SMS people. For years I have watched people extolling sms teachers, but it really has not been as people have led themselves to believe.
Malcolm, when you say following the klong sal, do you mean working through rushens semdzins trekchod etc according to his termas, or was he talking about some more specific sequence of practising his termas?
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

PeterC wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:01 am
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:42 am It was always to create teachers, take a level, teach a level was original idea, but about 6 years in the boss was dissatisfied. His original idea was that people who passed level four would be equipped to give introduction. He also stated in one SMS training that people following klong goal were making better progress than SMS people. For years I have watched people extolling sms teachers, but it really has not been as people have led themselves to believe.
Malcolm, when you say following the klong sal, do you mean working through rushens semdzins trekchod etc according to his termas, or was he talking about some more specific sequence of practising his termas?
He meant the klong gsal teachings in general.
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PeterC
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by PeterC »

Fa Dao wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:44 am ok...so..I am just going to toss this out there and see where it goes..I am not good at organizing things so if someone wants to try and run with this, be my guest..
As people here know Rinpoche gave a transmission for Vajra Bridge of Longde which he said is the essentials of it. From my research there are 2 volumes in the Nyingma Kama that are devoted to the Vajra Bridge teachings/practices, and commentaries. Volumes 18 and 19 in one version and 32 and 33 in another.
So what I was thinking is 2 pronged...maybe a group of us could find a Nyinma Lama willing to give us the transmission for these 2 volumes..perhaps over skype or zoom (or something like that) and do it over time..for example: 1 hour a week or so until it is completed. And then we could try and find a translator that would be willing to translate it all into English..I would be willing to chip in whatever I could for a project like this to donate to a Lama and pay a translator...just want to see if there would be any interest from any of Rinpoches students for this....
Thoughts?
Fa Dao - I think if you wanted to practice Longde in ChNNr’s lineage then you’d want the lung of the first volume of the Longsal terma cycle, which contains ChNNr’s upadesha on the vajra bridge. (Correct me if I’m wrong about the content of that.)

Could I suggest a slight variation on your plan. We track down members of the DC who have received the lungs of each of the Longsal teachings - and since they were given at different times in different places, that means a group of people, it’s highly unlikely one person will have received them all - and we organize a mass lung of the whole lot. People can seek out explanations afterwards, but we ensure that the reading transmissions have been given. The only requirement to give a lung of a text is that you’ve received it from someone who has received it. So we don’t get into the contentious question of DI, but we do what we can to ensure the termas are propagated.

I would also be willing to contribute to the costs of this.
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

PeterC wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:26 am
Fa Dao wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:44 am ok...so..I am just going to toss this out there and see where it goes..I am not good at organizing things so if someone wants to try and run with this, be my guest..
As people here know Rinpoche gave a transmission for Vajra Bridge of Longde which he said is the essentials of it. From my research there are 2 volumes in the Nyingma Kama that are devoted to the Vajra Bridge teachings/practices, and commentaries. Volumes 18 and 19 in one version and 32 and 33 in another.
So what I was thinking is 2 pronged...maybe a group of us could find a Nyinma Lama willing to give us the transmission for these 2 volumes..perhaps over skype or zoom (or something like that) and do it over time..for example: 1 hour a week or so until it is completed. And then we could try and find a translator that would be willing to translate it all into English..I would be willing to chip in whatever I could for a project like this to donate to a Lama and pay a translator...just want to see if there would be any interest from any of Rinpoches students for this....
Thoughts?
Fa Dao - I think if you wanted to practice Longde in ChNNr’s lineage then you’d want the lung of the first volume of the Longsal terma cycle, which contains ChNNr’s upadesha on the vajra bridge. (Correct me if I’m wrong about the content of that.)

Could I suggest a slight variation on your plan. We track down members of the DC who have received the lungs of each of the Longsal teachings - and since they were given at different times in different places, that means a group of people, it’s highly unlikely one person will have received them all - and we organize a mass lung of the whole lot. People can seek out explanations afterwards, but we ensure that the reading transmissions have been given. The only requirement to give a lung of a text is that you’ve received it from someone who has received it. So we don’t get into the contentious question of DI, but we do what we can to ensure the termas are propagated.

I would also be willing to contribute to the costs of this.
There are two parts to this: Kongtrul’s gdams sngag mdzod klong sde instructions, Rinpoche’s own visionary teachings. It’s not hard to find people who received both from the boss.
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Adamantine
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Adamantine »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:41 am

There are two parts to this: Kongtrul’s gdams sngag mdzod klong sde instructions, Rinpoche’s own visionary teachings. It’s not hard to find people who received both from the boss.
Have you?
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Fa Dao
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Fa Dao »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:46 am
Fa Dao wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:44 am ok...so..I am just going to toss this out there and see where it goes..I am not good at organizing things so if someone wants to try and run with this, be my guest..
As people here know Rinpoche gave a transmission for Vajra Bridge of Longde which he said is the essentials of it. From my research there are 2 volumes in the Nyingma Kama that are devoted to the Vajra Bridge teachings/practices, and commentaries. Volumes 18 and 19 in one version and 32 and 33 in another.
So what I was thinking is 2 pronged...maybe a group of us could find a Nyinma Lama willing to give us the transmission for these 2 volumes..perhaps over skype or zoom (or something like that) and do it over time..for example: 1 hour a week or so until it is completed. And then we could try and find a translator that would be willing to translate it all into English..I would be willing to chip in whatever I could for a project like this to donate to a Lama and pay a translator...just want to see if there would be any interest from any of Rinpoches students for this....
Thoughts?
Your better off moving on to man ngag sde. Rinpoche advised people at 2015 yang ti retreat not to remain stuck in klong sde.

I’ve already translated a goodly portion of the long vajra bridge. It’s not what people imagine. The first volume is three histories, written by Kunzang Dorje, called vajra bridge. Second volume is various practices no one practices anymore, though there is a lot of interesting material there.
So..Malcolm ole buddy...think you could send me those "goodly portions" that you have translated? :D
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

Adamantine wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:59 am
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:41 am

There are two parts to this: Kongtrul’s gdams sngag mdzod klong sde instructions, Rinpoche’s own visionary teachings. It’s not hard to find people who received both from the boss.
Have you?
Myself and many others.
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Adamantine
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Adamantine »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:25 am
Adamantine wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:59 am
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:41 am

There are two parts to this: Kongtrul’s gdams sngag mdzod klong sde instructions, Rinpoche’s own visionary teachings. It’s not hard to find people who received both from the boss.
Have you?
Myself and many others.
Yes though not many others are actively teaching and offering lungs... ;)
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

Adamantine wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:51 am
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:25 am
Adamantine wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:59 am

Have you?
Myself and many others.
Yes though not many others are actively teaching and offering lungs... ;)
That will change. Klong sde is important, but by no means indispensable.
climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:10 am
PeterC wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:01 am
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:42 am It was always to create teachers, take a level, teach a level was original idea, but about 6 years in the boss was dissatisfied. His original idea was that people who passed level four would be equipped to give introduction. He also stated in one SMS training that people following klong goal were making better progress than SMS people. For years I have watched people extolling sms teachers, but it really has not been as people have led themselves to believe.
Malcolm, when you say following the klong sal, do you mean working through rushens semdzins trekchod etc according to his termas, or was he talking about some more specific sequence of practising his termas?
He meant the klong gsal teachings in general.
But unfortunately most of those teachings are closed to many of us. For someone as bad of a practitioner as myself it probably doesn’t make a difference, I think the previous vase and ancillary could keep me busy for a lifetime, but do you see a path forward to the Longsal teachings who didn’t receive them while ChNN was alive?

I’m certainly not trying to call you out but as a Lama who gives wang and DI yourself, wouldn’t you (or someone with similar training and experience to you) be qualified to pass on Longsal practices? (Apologies if my heads sonfar up my ass about authority that I’ve missed the Dzogchen point!)
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by MiphamFan »

It's sad but personally, while practising ChNN's teachings daily still, I am seeking teachings from other lamas too. I definitely need guidance on the path, SMS teachers are a bit ahead on the path of me, but I'm not sure how far they can lead me.

Ati Guru Yoga + SoV till I die but in the meantime I need teachings too.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Aryjna »

MiphamFan wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:01 am It's sad but personally, while practising ChNN's teachings daily still, I am seeking teachings from other lamas too. I definitely need guidance on the path, SMS teachers are a bit ahead on the path of me, but I'm not sure how far they can lead me.

Ati Guru Yoga + SoV till I die but in the meantime I need teachings too.
I don't think it's sad. It seems clear from reading about ChNNR and many other masters that they received teachings whenever there was an opportunity to receive them from a good teacher. If anything, that seems to be the best thing to do.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by gendun »

In reality it’s only a short time since Rinpoches passing.
We perhaps need to take a longer view? Things are still settling, and this process will probably continue for some time.
In the meantime we can take nectar from whichever flowers are blooming which are accessible to us.
This situation is mirrored in the lives of every student of every great teacher that predeceases them, I would suggest.
Malcolm
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Malcolm »

climb-up wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:16 am
Malcolm wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:10 am
PeterC wrote: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:01 am

Malcolm, when you say following the klong sal, do you mean working through rushens semdzins trekchod etc according to his termas, or was he talking about some more specific sequence of practising his termas?
He meant the klong gsal teachings in general.
But unfortunately most of those teachings are closed to many of us. For someone as bad of a practitioner as myself it probably doesn’t make a difference, I think the previous vase and ancillary could keep me busy for a lifetime, but do you see a path forward to the Longsal teachings who didn’t receive them while ChNN was alive?

I’m certainly not trying to call you out but as a Lama who gives wang and DI yourself, wouldn’t you (or someone with similar training and experience to you) be qualified to pass on Longsal practices? (Apologies if my heads sonfar up my ass about authority that I’ve missed the Dzogchen point!)
My job is the 17 tantras.
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