Namdrol wrote:It states it to be the case in the Abhisamayaalaṃkara, and other Mahāyāna texts, as opposed to a sixteen moment path of seeing proposed in Abhidharma kosha.
N
Thanks, I accept that as a legitimate source.
Namdrol wrote:It states it to be the case in the Abhisamayaalaṃkara, and other Mahāyāna texts, as opposed to a sixteen moment path of seeing proposed in Abhidharma kosha.
N
Namdrol wrote:
It states it to be the case in the Abhisamayaalaṃkara, and other Mahāyāna texts, as opposed to a sixteen moment path of seeing proposed in Abhidharma kosha.
N
nonsense.devilyoudont wrote: Anything can preclude everything else if you let it. Ultimately, it can even preclude itself.
not neededdevilyoudont wrote: Do you have direct perception of my direct perception
I am not sure what you are saying.devilyoudont wrote: and do you perceive that yours is in fact perception as opposed to say, faith or touchy feely intuition?
I don't see how it promotes that, but I will agree with the soulless part.devilyoudont wrote:
Are you aware that it's this sort of statements that promote bypassing free inquiry and individual conviction in favor of soulless consensus-building?
I don't care if they do or not, I was just answering your questions.devilyoudont wrote: Do you wish, for whatever reason, that my words outwardly conformed with yours?
who is picking on anything?devilyoudont wrote: I do not perceive that instantaneity or any other alternative cannot preclude everything else. Why pick on poor old gradation? Or suddenness for that matter?
I have no idea what you are asking, but I stand by what I say.devilyoudont wrote:Of the being or non-being who has awakened, you mean to say? From the perspective of the beginner?PadmaVonSamba wrote:So, even if you have a sudden realization or attainment, even if it isn't slowly pried open like a can of paint, you can't dismiss all of the events in your life which contributed to it..
OK it seems in the Sarvastivada Abhidharma it is 15 moments and then one moment that reviews. Different from the Theravada Abhidhamma where one single moment is a path moment and then there are either two are three fruition (reviewing moments) that follow, depending on whether has used mundane dhyana as a basis for insight or not.Loppon, in Abhidharma kosha, are path moments mentioned? If so do these consist of 16 actual consecutive moments? Or would the path moment be just one moment in a mind door process series of sixteen moments, each other moment in the series performing it's own separate function?
I may be off base here because I am comparing what I have learned in the Theravada Abhidhamma to what you have said above. However, even "path moment" maybe be understood very differently in the Abhidharma kosha, I'm not sure. I would really like to know more.
Thank you,
Kevin
Virgo wrote:Namdrol wrote:
It states it to be the case in the Abhisamayaalaṃkara, and other Mahāyāna texts, as opposed to a sixteen moment path of seeing proposed in Abhidharma kosha.
N
Loppon, in Abhidharma kosha, are path moments mentioned? If so do these consist of 16 actual consecutive moments? Or would the path moment be just one moment in a mind door process series of sixteen moments, each other moment in the series performing it's own separate function?
I may be off base here because I am comparing what I have learned in the Theravada Abhidhamma to what you have said above. However, even "path moment" maybe be understood very differently in the Abhidharma kosha, I'm not sure. I would really like to know more.
Thank you,
Kevin
Namdrol wrote:Hi, it is sixteen consecutive mental cognitions through the four noble truths.
N
It sure can be, if you let it. Eg. I only accepted Namdrol's thesis that awakening is instantaneous once its philosophical context had been stated unambiguously.PadmaVonSamba wrote:nonsense.
Cessation is not spontaneous nor gradual. It is natural (automatically).devilyoudont wrote:If cessation is spontaneous, what practice can bring you enlightenment?
If cessation is gradual, what practice CAN'T bring you enlightenment?
It is conditional.PadmaVonSamba wrote:Awakening does not depend on either gradual or spontaneous, because then it would be conditional.
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