Dzogchen Chod vs Mahamudra Chod

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Dzogchen Chod vs Mahamudra Chod

Post by LunaRoja » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:57 pm

What is the difference between Dzogchen Chod and Mahamudra Chod? In the end do they both bring about the same realization?

Thank you in advance for any answers.



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Re: Dzogchen Chod vs Mahamudra Chod

Post by twonny » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:12 am

As far as I know there is no such think as Dzogchen or Mahamudra chod, although you can use the view developed in Mahamudra or Dzogchen in all practices, the actual practices are different.

What you may be referring to is Chod in the Ningma and Kargyu traditions, one example of this, and the only one I have personally practiced is the Chod as part of the Ninth Karmapa, Wanchuk Dorje's "ocean of certainty". This is part of the preliminary practices for the "ocean of definitive meaning" which is a Mahamudra text. Is that what you mean by Mahamudra Chod?

If this is what you mean, without going into to much specific detail in a public forum, the main practices will be similar in essence but the pryers and visualizations will vary depending on the lineage of masters who passed them down. The final realization from all chod practices, or any tantric practice, will be complete enlightenment when combined with the correct view (emptiness or the nature of your mind) and bodhicitta

hope this helps

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Re: Dzogchen Chod vs Mahamudra Chod

Post by Malcolm » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:07 pm

twonny wrote:As far as I know there is no such think as Dzogchen or Mahamudra chod
Sure there are. Jigme Lingpa's chö is an example of Chö from the Dzogchen tradition. Troma Nagmo from Dudjom Tersar is another. These chö practices are marked by using termonology from the system of Dzogchen.

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Re: Dzogchen Chod vs Mahamudra Chod

Post by conebeckham » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:47 pm

...and the Daily Practice of Offering the Body, or "Lujin," compiled by Kongtrul, which is the main daily Chod practice for Kagyupas, is related to Mahamudra in the commentary called "Garden of All Joy."

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Re: Dzogchen Chod vs Mahamudra Chod

Post by Blue Garuda » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:29 pm

There is Chod in the Ganden Tradition: ... 665&sr=8-1" onclick=";return false;

In addition there is Kusali Tsog within HYT which reputedly contains the essential elements of Gelugpa Chod.

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Re: Dzogchen Chod vs Mahamudra Chod

Post by Dharmaswede » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:31 pm

The final realization is the same – and I have been told not to worry about the differences between the two. That being said, I appreciate your question and sometimes ponder upon it too (without any worthwhile conclusion to share).

Best Regards,


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Re: Dzogchen Chod vs Mahamudra Chod

Post by JinpaRangdrol » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:20 pm

There are certainly differences between the two. While all Chod has its roots in Machig and Padampa's lineages (Mother and Father Chod, which are virtually indistinguishable now), Machig taught Mahamudra Chod primarily. However, there are a number of Dzogchen Chod cycles and sadhanas that were concealed and re-concealed as Terma by Padampa and Machig. Machig's first main teacher, Traba Ngonshechen, was a Dzogchenpa, after all.
In general, Dzogchen Chod tends to be more pithy and condensed than Mahamudra Chod (though that is not always the case), and often opts out of more elaborate versions of the various sections of the practice, such as Phowa and the actual Lujin. Otherwise, the only real differences between the two is the kind of language and terminology used.

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Re: Dzogchen Chod vs Mahamudra Chod

Post by LunaRoja » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:23 pm

Thank you all very much for your responses!

In another thread JinpaRangdrol you stated this
In Dzogchen Chod, it is often remarked that "tar chod ja dang chod je chod yul kun, she dzogpa chenpor macho AH." "In the end, the offerer, the act of offering, and the offering field, all of these, dissolve into the unfabricated Great Perfection (Dzogpachenpo) AH." This is the true essence of Chod.
If Dzogchen Chod results in dissolving into the unfabricated Great Perfection AH, then what would the results of Mahamudra chod be? I am guessing the offerer, the act of offering and the offering field dissolve into the clarity and emptiness of the great mother prajnaparamita. This would also be the sutra understanding of Chod. Is this correct?

Thank you again.


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