nagarjuna two truths to tientai threefold truth. How?

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nichiren-123
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nagarjuna two truths to tientai threefold truth. How?

Post by nichiren-123 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:02 pm

So I get the two truths theory formulated by Nagarjuna. There is ultimate truth (i.e. insight into emptiness) and then there is conventional truth, which, which useful, is ultimately false. So there is a sort of hierarchy: ultimate truth > conventional truth

But then in in tientai there are three truths: emptiness, conventional truth and the middle way. These three are not only equal but also imply the other two. Now I've been reading tientai for months and I still don't get anything I've said in this paragraph...

I don't get anything about the threefold truth. I can make sense of the two truths but not the threefold truth...?

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Caoimhghín
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Re: nagarjuna two truths to tientai threefold truth. How?

Post by Caoimhghín » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:01 pm

nichiren-123 wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:02 pm
So I get the two truths theory formulated by Nagarjuna. There is ultimate truth (i.e. insight into emptiness) and then there is conventional truth, which, which useful, is ultimately false. So there is a sort of hierarchy: ultimate truth > conventional truth

But then in in tientai there are three truths: emptiness, conventional truth and the middle way. These three are not only equal but also imply the other two. Now I've been reading tientai for months and I still don't get anything I've said in this paragraph...

I don't get anything about the threefold truth. I can make sense of the two truths but not the threefold truth...?
The non-differentiation between samsara and nirvana of Ven Nagarjuna is treated as it's own "truth" in Tiantai. A "third".
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

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takso
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Re: nagarjuna two truths to tientai threefold truth. How?

Post by takso » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:08 pm

nichiren-123 wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:02 pm
I don't get anything about the threefold truth. I can make sense of the two truths but not the threefold truth...?
It simply means one plus one equals to three... :smile:

TRUTH 1 - Ultimate Truth (an insight into one side of the coin).
TRUTH 2 - Conventional Truth (an insight into another side of the coin).
TRUTH 3 - Middle Way Truth (an insight into the two sides of the same coin concurrently).

The wise Buddha has laid emphasis that one should see in all angles of things or matters while pursuing the ultimate truth. Without it, any conclusions made out of one’s observation would not be balanced or in a wholesome nature. In Buddhism, wholesome would mean in totality of perspective (skillful) and unwholesome would mean in non-totality of perspective (unskillful). There is no holy or sinful thought or act in the eyes of the Buddha.

In fact, the Buddha has recommended Middle Path as an ideal approach when addressing a problem. Middle Path is all about focusing on core, neutral, balance and upright. It means to investigate and break through the core of life and all things without any attitudes of favouritism. Any investigations must commence based on unbiased grounds i.e. on neutral and upright positions. In other words, one needs to investigate the problem from various angles, analyse the findings, understand the truth thoroughly, and find a reasonable conclusion.

So, the TRUTH 3 lies within the so-called 'reasonable conclusion'.

:anjali:
~ Ignorance triumphs when wise men do nothing ~

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Queequeg
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Re: nagarjuna two truths to tientai threefold truth. How?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:04 pm

See Swanson's Tientai Philosophy and Ng's Tientai and Early Madhyamika.

Also, you might find Jikai's notes and the discussion in the MoHo Chih Kuan discussion thread interesting.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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